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Recipes for Success: Noel and Vayne

Discussion in 'Guides' started by SirIgnis, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. SirIgnis

    SirIgnis Recipeh Master GL Player

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    I'm back! Got the next batch of characters for you all. Same as last time, these discussions assume you have all of each character's necessary gear. This is also based on GL game conditions, so characters without certain abilities will be discussed as they currently play. Let's start with....


    Noel is a bit overwhelming when you first get access to him. Every move has a special condition to it and there's a lot to learn at once. However, once you do, he's a lot of fun to play and does great damage.

    - Tempest Strike
    • Tempest Strike has a name that helps you remember its attack type: ice and wind. It's important to watch an enemy's resistances because the strength of this move increases exponentially when an enemy does not resist or is weak to any part of it.
    • When you use tempest strike on a broken target, you guaranteed break them again and delay them one turn. Bravery plays no part in it, it definitely happens. This is a big strength of Noel, while a one turn delay isn't huge, you can effectively break a target every time it's Noel's turn because if an enemy DOES have brave and isn't broken, his other skills will still break the enemy and leave you more Tempest Strikes for when they are broken.
    • Tempest Strike is best used when you are low on brave - if you are near capped Gale Fang should be used unless you need to still break a broken target to save a team member from getting attacked.
    - Gale Fang
    • Start every fight with Gale Fang. Not only does this raise Noel's Max Brave, Attack, and Defense, it changes his Brave Attack and HP attack into much more useful abilities which I will cover below.
    • Previously I mentioned that Gale Fang should be used when Noel's brave is high - this is because the skill overflows 150% if a target isn't broken, and 180% if a target is broken. Your damage will be massive if you use this near max brave and is the best utilization of the skill.
    • Despite its name, Gale Fang does not have an element tied to its attack, therefore do not expect to see the same damage boost Tempest Strike gets from its elements. This isn't much of a big deal however, because Gale Fang is already very strong when used at the right time.
    - Meteor Strike
    • So long as a Tempest Strike break won't help you more, always use this immediately when you have it. You will receive "Will to Seize the Future" framed buff which raises the party's attack and max brave. This means a permanent boost to people like like Vayne and Lightning who would normally eat through buff turns.
    • The attack itself will also ensure a break if an enemy isn't already broken with a 3 brave, one hp attack move done THREE TIMES that ignores defense. If the target is broken, the final hp attack will also have 50% splash damage on all other enemies.
    - Last Hunter Attacks: Fear Siphon and Scourge (Brave and Hp attacks after using Gale Fang and while you have Last Hunter active)
    • Fear Siphon is what your Brave attack turns into after that recommended first use of Gale Fang, and it simply turn your brave attack into 2 hits instead of one. It is EXTREMELY important you use this whenever it can break a target with it, because if you do, Noel gets a free skill use the next turn, and you can't even make a bad decision. Your brave will be high for a gale fang because you just built brave with Fear Siphon, or you can take an extra free turn delay with Tempest Strike. The only reason to not use Fear Siphon on a target with brave is if you don't think Noel will be able to break it, because no break means no free skill.
    • Scourge is what to use when you want to save on skill uses. It hits with a brave attack then hp attack, and can overflow 120% on a target with brave, and 150% on a broken target. Use this if you are high on brave but expect you'll need Tempest or Gale on later turns.
    - Shaving Slash
    • As if everything else wasn't absurd enough, Noel's crystal 65 ability lets him half an opponent's brave and then chop them with a single brave attack. This is what to use when Fear Siphon won't get the job done, because it also gives you yet ANOTHER attack bonus for two turns.
    - Summary

    Noel's kit is like a weird baby of Vayne and Alisae's - you want to keep a rotation going that also lets you break broken targets and keep your ability use at a perpetual high count. You get to be aggressive with Noel and with all he does by himself already, he can become totally insane depending on the team you pair him with. I got his kit on accident chasing Locke's ex, and I couldn't be happier that I did.
    Afnan, Meruem and Einzel like this.
  2. SirIgnis

    SirIgnis Recipeh Master GL Player

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    VAYNE (provided by the great @Einzel )

    Vayne's kit is a very powerful one but only when used right - he has a lot to keep track of and if you don't capitalize on what you have and the best ability to use on certain turns, his power is lost and your team will feel it. I still have trouble using Vayne so I asked Einzel to write how he plays the character because he does do well with him and I figured everyone could benefit from his info. This is what he had to say, with a couple opinions of my own:

    - Force of Will
    • This comes first because it makes explaining everything else easier. Force of Will is where a lot of Vayne's strength comes from - it does 2 brave attacks, HP attacks, but then unbreaks the enemy and hits them 4 more times before another HP attack. This means that if you hit an enemy low on brave and break them with the first two hits, you unbreak them and break them AGAIN to delay them for 2 turns. While level 30 summons are all the rage right now, Vayne's double breaking of an enemy makes a case to put Bahamut on if you're feeling clever, because he can boost the break bonus you get so quickly.
    • Force of Will grants you two buffs:
      - 1 level of Conqueror's Power. When you get 3 of these, Vayne gets to act for 3 turns in a row, and it only counts as one.
      - 10 turns Consul's ingenuity - this make your Brave attack Kick which hits twice instead of once, and your HP attack Pummel, which hits twice and then performs the HP attack. What's important to know about both of these is that using them will give you +1 level of Conqueror's Power so that you can save your skill uses to reach level 3.
    • Because of all that Force of Will does in a single action, it is recommended as skill use #1 in any fight even if you're overkilling a basic enemy to get the ball rolling for Vayne's entire kit.
    • Force of Will is the only way you can get Consul's Ingenuity - watch your buff turns to make sure this doesn't run out so you can always use kick and pummel. It's easy to accidentally blaze through 10 turns when Vayne frequently gets 3 in a row, because even though your 3 turns count as one on the total turn count, your buffs still reduce by 1 with each action he takes.
    - Mach Wave
    • Stronger than Pummel, Mach wave hits the enemy for 3 brave hits and then an HP attack that can overflow 120%. While it's tempting to use this a bunch for P H A T damage on your 3 turn run, it's better to use strategically because it provides TWO levels of Conqueror's Power. That means after one use of kick, pummel, or Force of Will, Mach will push you to have 3 turns the next time Vayne gets to act. It also means that if you already have two levels of Conqueror's power, it may be better to use kick, pummel, or even Force of Will for that final third level so you can use mach later to get 2 more levels back.
    - Tree of Sephira
    • Vayne gets to be even more silly with his EX, which not only does decent damage, but also gives you THREE levels of Conqueror's Power and one use of Mach Wave AND Force of Will back. What's so huge about this, other than just getting two free strong skill uses, is if you're on your 3-turn run, you can use Tree of Sephira as your third turn and then Vayne immediately has 3 more turns because he has renewed his Conqueror's Power level to 3.
    • While Vayne's turn 3 is the ideal time to use Tree, you can still use it in a pinch before he has Conqueror's Power level 3 to instantly get him there if he can act again before the enemy and have his 3 turns early.
    • Never use this on the first or second turn of Vayne's 3 turn chain because he will not gain the 3 levels of Conqueror's Power while your extra turns are already active. Basically, if you see "Tree of Sephira +", you should not use it.
    - Skill Strategy and Additional Info
    • When you have Tree of Sephira ready and 3 levels of Conqueror's Power, it is best to use 2 pummels and then Tree unless you're just trying to deal a ton of extra damage to kill a near-dead target. This is because on Vayne's first two turns of his chain, skills will not build your EX gauge, which means they're working for you less than if you use them outside of the chain. When you DON'T have Tree ready, you have a choice to make: Kick and Pummel will not build your EX meter, but they will save skill uses. Using Mach or Force of Will takes skill uses you may want to save, but also builds faster toward your next Tree which will replenish their use, and deals more damage than kick or pummel. It's up to you to be smart and decide what benefits your battle the most.
    • Conqueror's Power doesn't only provide Vayne turns, it raises his attack and lowers enemy attack the higher the level gets. While the difference is minor, it could help to be aware of to manipulate the damage an enemy is sending your way by choosing how fast you boost to 3 levels of the buff.
    • 5 consecutive skill uses will get you an EX. Following your first use of Tree, 4 uses will. It is personal preference if you want to rush skills to get Tree as fast as you can, but it gives you an idea of the pace to expect when you are planning your turns.
    • Vayne is another complex character where you get out him what you put into learning him. The player makes a HUGE difference for Vayne's effectiveness, and knowing the rules of Conqueror's Power and Tree, you'll see in co op when a Vayne knows what they're doing. And your enemy will die much faster when they do.

    Thank you again @Einzel for sending me Vayne's strategy to provide to everyone. If there are any thoughts, just like last time, feel free to add them here. Also open to requests if you want to know about any characters specifically for the next chapter - If I get no requests I'll just pick myself because I enjoy writing these. Hope they've helped and I'll see you again for the next two characters!
    Epsilon, Afnan, Meruem and 2 others like this.
  3. Einzel

    Einzel hoo hoo (i'm an Owl) GL Player

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    Hmm.. maybe not for Vayne himself but more on team building to utilize him. You want to bring atk/brv regen buffer e.g. Ramza or you can boost him with +1 turn buff e.g. Yuna, Eiko and Sazh to make the bonus free turn longer.
    Meruem, Leprechaun and SirIgnis like this.
  4. Leprechaun

    Leprechaun Worst RNG king GL Player Worst RNG King

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    Awesome Ignis!

    I will add only little sidenotes so people won't burn their fingers :):D


    - if you use him in co-op. watch out for your summon, other people summon and other people chars.

    Bahamut: it will increase Break bonus thanks to on demand break like vayne and during summon damage on EX and Fang but give nothing to tempestrike.
    Don't spam only tempest when someone (or you) use Bahamut!

    At the same time be careful on allies with party enchant! Your ex and fang won't get Bahamut power up during summon!


    While I agree on Bahamut... I have to say Vayne doesn't hit hard when compared to other dps so you may want to give him a summon with atk blessing (Ifrit or better Shiva for higher spd. More turns before enemies)

    For reason above Vayne likes buffs... But burn then fast as well so you have to check uses... Unless you rely on party aura... And the most fun one to use is Layle!

    With higher chase points on every ability and field debuff, Vayne's free turns will help a lot getting a chase ready!

    Now it comes to its free turns...
    Try to not summon when you have conqueror III!
    This for two reasons:

    - the free turns are meant to increase score by dealing free damage.

    - they still burn Summon turns, so you are actually dealing less overall damage then attacking with everyone (as most have batteries) and building conqueror with mach, force or tree of sephira.

    - Mach Wave is actually a Majinken
    Afnan, Meruem and SirIgnis like this.
  5. Epsilon

    Epsilon Mogglesguard GL Player

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    532342688 - GL
    Awesome, thanks both! Especially good to learn about Vayne - I always felt I wasn’t making the best use of him and I’ve picked up some handy tips :)
    SirIgnis likes this.

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